The Sex Talk: Pam and Ashley

"When you look at Ashley, you would honestly think that she was older than what she really is. Ashley would wear shirts where her breasts would be showing," Pam says about her 14-year-old daughter.

"I started wearing, like, tight pants, tight shirts," Ashley says. "I always wanted to hang around boys. My mom didn't talk to me about sex until she found out I did it. That was, like, when I was 13."

"Ashley and I fight about her having sex, her respect, her honesty, her lies. We pretty much fight about every single thing," Pam says. "She snuck out of the house to have sex, not once but several times."

"I have only had sex with, like, three boys now," Ashley says.

Her mother thinks differently. "There have been at least six boys that I know of that Ashley has had sex with," she says.

"The first boy I had sex with was 19 years old," Ashley explains.

"I found out that they did it right here in my own house, and she did it behind a store with him," Pam says.

"The second guy was when, I'm trying to think. I can't remember when that one was," Ashley says.

"I just tell Ashley, 'One mistake, you could end up pregnant.' ‘Well, that's my problem, not your problem,'" Pam recounts. 

"The last time I had sex was on the family vacation," Ashley says. "That was maybe almost two months ago now. We ended up having unprotected sex. I think that there could be a chance that I could be pregnant."

"Her body is a 14-year-old body. It's not ready to be pregnant, to have a child. She's a child. It just crushes me," Pam says.

"If I am pregnant, I would like to keep it, but I guess I would have to put it up for adoption," Ashley says.

"I hope to God she's not pregnant, but on the other hand, I need to prepare myself in case she is," Pam says.

"You did not know that she was sexually active, although you say you have a close relationship?" Dr. Phil asks Pam.

"I had no clue Ashley was having sex until one of her friends and her had an argument, and
that child and her mom came to my house. In my front yard, I find out that Ashley had sex. It was an older gentlemen."

"Yeah, 19 years old," Dr. Phil notes. "And you don't think that everything you know is everything there is to know, do you?"

"No," she says. "I believe there is more to the stories than what she's told me because she won't tell me everything she's doing."

"You say that you had the sex talk," Dr. Phil says to Pam, then turns to Ashley. "And you say, ‘No, we didn't.'"

"No," Ashley says.

"Do you feel that you can talk to her about this stuff?" Dr. Phil asks Ashley. "You're obviously hiding it for some reason."  

"I can talk to my mom about stuff, but she'll just sit there and just start going crazy about it though," she says. 

Dr. Chirban asks her, "How do you feel about your relationship with your mom?"

"It's OK," she says. "It's just, when it comes to sex, she can't sit still. She'll just start going crazy about it."

"Because I think, on the subject of sex, on the subject about most things, it's not about preaching. I think it's about teaching, and it's mostly about understanding," Dr. Chirban tells Pam, "and I think when the child has issues of concern or anxiety, if they're feeling that they're going to be attacked or criticized, they're not going to be able to open up about what's going on. I do feel that a lot of sexuality is about a yearning for a connection."

Ashley says she knew she wasn't in love with this older boy.

"But yet you got pressured into it anyway? Because what did he tell you? ‘I can't hang out with you because' why?" Dr. Phil asks.

"I'm a virgin. That's what he said to me."

"So we've got a 19-year-old telling a 14-year-old, ‘I can't hang out with you because you're a virgin.' And so you thought, ‘Well, I want to hang out, so therefore I'll do this.' How do you feel about that now?"

"I wish I would never have done that," Ashley says.


"I was 21 years old, a single mom, when I had her. She knew how hard it was for me to raise her, and I don't want her to go through the battles that I had to go through," Pam says.

"When sex becomes a conversation about the Do Nots, or it's predominately around negatives, I don't think we do justice to our children, to our own sexuality, or the subject at all," Dr. Chirban says.

Ashley wonders if she's pregnant. She's had nausea in the morning and her body feels different. She and her mom went to see renowned OB/GYN Dr. Lisa Masterson for a consultation and pregnancy test. 

Outside the doctor's office, Ashley says, "Right now, I'm really kind of nervous."

"Ashley has had nausea, Ashley has been complaining of her stomach hurting, Ashley has been gaining weight," Pam says.

"If I am pregnant, I wouldn't be able to get a car," Ashley says. "I wouldn't be able to hang out with any of my friends. I probably wouldn't be able to get through high school all the way because I would always have to have a job to take care of a kid at the same time. That'd be really hard, and then college probably wouldn't even be there for me."

Back onstage, Dr. Phil asks Ashley, "What would it mean to you if you found out you weren't pregnant?"

"I would be really happy because I could do more things," she says.

"Get a second chance?"

"Pretty much, yeah," she says.

Dr. Phil turns to Dr. Masterson. "Is Ashley pregnant?"

"I have great news. Ashley, you are not pregnant," Dr. Masterson says.

Ashley smiles and takes a deep breath.

Dr. Phil tells her, "You dodged this bullet ... Given a second chance, what are you going to do differently?"

"I'm not going to have sex anymore," Ashley says.

Dr. Phil turns to Pam. "And Mom, Dr. Chirban says this is an ongoing conversation. You two are in this together." He tells Ashley, "I mean, come on, there is nobody in your life that would sacrifice more, do more, commit more, help more, support more than your mother, and she's the one who you're yelling and screaming
and lying to, and ducking and weaving in every negative way that you can. You two have a second chance here."

"I think that with this second opportunity, working on improving their relationship is key," Dr. Chirban says.

Dr. Phil tells Ashley, "Sexuality is a natural thing, it's a positive thing, it's a good thing, but you have to value yourself enough to say, ‘I'm not
going to let somebody crash my life,' because I guarantee you, if you turn up pregnant from some ol' boy, you wouldn't be able to find him with both hands. You'll be the one who's going through the nine months. You'll be the one going through the 18 years. You'll be the one dropping out of school. You'll be the one having to work and trying to buy diapers, and milk and formula. You'll be the one doing all that. It comes to you, and you need to value yourself enough to say, ‘You're not going to do that to me. I'm better than that. Get away from me,' and you choose [when to plan] to do that."